I was reminded of this post idea this past weekend. Racism came up a few times, mostly in relation to our elder relatives. It did make me think of this very thought provoking chapter in the book “Nurture Shock”, by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman.
The chapter holds the same title as this post and it is fascinating.
The authors review several studies about “multicultural education”, either within the school system or within the family.
Their conclusions are fascinating. Basically, most white families ignore race. Meaning that they deal with it by saying, “We are all the same under our skin”, or, “everyone is equal”. They speak in generalities.
Schools just think that by lumping everyone together, all will be well because kids don’t notice racial differences.
But they do. And that should be acknowledged, according to this book. Kids whose parents openly discuss race are more accepting than those who don’t. It starts young, age 4 or 5. Because kids do notice obvious differences like skin colour and they need it explained. If it’s not, they will label some as “different” or they will infer, or worse, directly learn, from their parents behaviour.
Interracial schools don’t fare any better. Kids stick to their own for the most part (in the US where these studies were done). If there is an interracial relationship, it is based around only one activity so the chances of longevity are compromised.
I grew up in what was East York, Toronto. Many of the kids were Greek, but there was a mix. I don’t remember talking about race much at home or at school. I do know I got the “we are all equal” messages.
After reading this book, I went out and purchased a number of books that have black & native people in them (and other races), in order to launch discussions with my girls. Where we are, 98% of the population is white or white/Algonquin mixed. I try to read them and start discussions. Because my girls are only 4, it isn’t always coherent, but I’m going to continue to make the effort because, even if these studies don’t pan out, the results make sense to me.
Kids do notice differences, any differences, and they often lead teasing based on them, minor or major. So, let’s do our best to stop it, and race seems like an obvious place to start.
What do you think? How do you deal with race and difference with your kids?
I know I’m jumping in here way late on this topic, but on the LGBT issue, my kids *DID* ask a lot at younger ages, and not because we know any LBGT families or individuals (more’s the pity, but this is suburban Calgary after all). The thing is, as little girls they would often say stuff like, “I want to marry Susie”, to which I would always reply, “if you still want to marry Susie when you’re grown up, that’s great!” But so, so, so often, another mother or — more frequently — another child, would interject with, “oh no! Girls can’t marry girls!” So we had THAT particular discussion when they were in preschool.
I just told them that most times, girls like to marry boys, and boys like to marry girls. But for some people, two girls fall in love and want to get married, or two boys do. And that’s perfectly fine…a grownup woman can marry another woman if they both want to, and a grownup man can marry a man if they both want to.
Boy, in conservative Calgary that sure opened up a lot of conflict!
I think I’m like Desi… I answer my kids’ specific questions with honest answers, but they haven’t asked a whole lot, so far. They’re biracial, and my son has a darker complexion than my daughter, but there hasn’t been much discussion about it. Our family is fairly diverse too, though I would say our neighbourhood is not.
I’d also agree that ethnic tolerance varies by region, and though our immediate surroundings are predominantly white, we are in an urban setting – and Canada is vastly different from the US in culture – we don’t have the same “oppressive” history, so I’m not certain that the stats observed in the study you mentioned would be the same for Canadians… but that’s not to say that racism doesn’t exist at all – it’s perhaps just not the same here.
Great thought-provoking post, Erin!!
Hi Kelly,
I think that most commenters here would agree that history taught should be age/child appropriate. I’m not going to talk about the Holocaust or Slavery with my 4 year olds. However, it is appropriate to start in the Intermediate grades.
The same with gay/lesbian/transgendered issues. Unless they ask because we have friends who are and they might ask. But, I do think it’s important to address it by a certain age because they do bully based on issues like these. We don’t want to let it get to the point where teenagers are killing themselves, so we have a duty to address it by the time they are becoming aware of it.
I bought the books because we don’t have a lot of “natural” opportunities where we live.
The whole point of the chapter in this book was that kids DO have judgement (see my reply to Jen’s comment for stats). That is according to the studies that these authors used for the chapter. As I’ve said before, studies can be manipulated, however, I have noticed kids judging…. A LOT… and I don’t think it all comes from their parents or peers. We naturally judge.
Think about how hard it is not to judge. I often have to make an effort not to judge. Maybe not based on race, but certainly based on parenting, politics, etc.
The authors (and I) are not suggesting that we beat issues into them, just that they are addressed and in the open.
What needs addressing with race? History, culture, identity, difference, difference from what…( I know, I know, the dominant culture, I went to university in 1990, there was nothing else but talk of this “dominant culture”) I think things are too post-modern and identity politics divide.
We’re all different and it is the business of judgement that does us in. My daughter said of her pre-school teacher, “Teacher has dark skin” Well, as it turns out she does. I said, “Yes, teacher does have dark skin”. And that was that. History is too heavy for the kids to carry. Marley didn’t need race to be addressed just her observation noted. I don’t want to ignore history but the main point I want to make to my kid is: we are all who we are and we live in a culture that is about difference. It’s kinda the ideal, isn’t it?
The tough one was when my kid said LOUDLY, “Mummy that lady is VERY, VERY fat!” That lady was very, very, very, ummmm…”large”. It was true but OUCH! I got pretty preachy and defensive on that one – fast. Anyone wanna tackle body image with their daughter (s), going once, going twice…
I have had parents insist that I include gay/lesbian issues in my (grade two) classroom and I have said NO WAY. I support the struggle and have a transgendered nephew (isn’t it interesting I need to give my little sidebar of “special understanding” – but that’s another point). To insist children MUST be aware of this issue is to beat out of them their fresh and insightful takes on difference. They notice but they have NO judgment or history or opinion. But, we do and it’s when we put our “stuff” on them that it becomes, what Jen said, “a thing”.
I’m also planning on being open about gay, lesbian and transgendered. I have quite a few friends who are one of the above but they all live in Toronto so we’re not around them that much. We;ll see how it all plays out as they get older and notice.
There is still a lot of homophobia up here and I really don’t want them picking it up from their peers.
Thanks for the book recommendation. The one’s I have so far are good and I’ll keep my eye open. I need books because the north is very “white”.
You’re right about the US having a different history, not that ours is all that great, in fact, our history with the native people of this country is horrendous.
I think it’s important to acknowledge it and move forward together.
I loved the Book of Negroes, he is such a fabulous writer. I will check out this book too. Thanks for the recommendation.
Great story Nancy!
We don’t have different races up here so I can’t wait for them to bring it up organically and still meet that developmental window. We do go to the city but it’s not often enough or for long enough to really explore the different cultures.
I know that there is a study to back up just about anything, but this chapter made sense to me.
I wrote a big long response to this last night and it didn’t post????
Anyway, Kay, you make an interesting point. I do think it’s important to explore different cultures and we do a pretty good job in Canada (in the cities & in the education system).
However, people are neurologically programmed to categorize (according to studies cited in the book”Nurture Shock”, which this post is about). The reality is that humans are of different “physical” races, as well as different cultures. People, including children, notice these differences right away. The key is not to include judging in the categorizing. That’s been a problem for humans historically (and still today).
Each “race” has many, many different cultures within it. All of them interesting and vibrant. I remember growing up we always got our “passports” and went around to many of the venues of Caravan. It was amazing. We tasted different foods, watched dances, looked at art and clothing and learned so much.
Anyway, I have to think more about the word “race”. Your comment has given me lots to think about. Thank you.
What a great post Erin. It’s made me think. I had always intended on being super open with Will early on about lesbian, gay and transgendered people but had always, like you said, just thought that different races was just something that he would naturally learn about and accept. I’m going to make a conscious effort to be more talkative about race as well.
If you want to take the topic head on, Julius Lester has a wonderful picture book for older kids called “Let’s Talk About Race.”
We mostly compare differences in appearances on a larger scale, so that differences in hair colour, height and body shape, skin colour, etc. are all rolled into the larger discussion about how people come in lots of shapes and sizes. Sometimes, those differences have to do with where your ancestors came from, and sometimes they are because those features helped them adapt to that place, but sometimes it’s just the wonderful variety that humans come in. For everyday differences, I hope it helps to reiterate that message about lots of differences so that they can just be viewed as part of the range of people, you know?
I think, though, that it is important to talk about how people used to view race and treat people badly because of it, because I think that not only is it dangerous to ignore that, but it also helps explain why it is still very loaded in some places. I think it IS very different in the States, where the deep damage of their history is not yet healed and huge gaps in opportunity still exist. It’s important to have understanding of that, however optimistic we may be about going forward, and however much we want our kids to just be accepting.
when I was a toddler we lived in Nigeria. My brother who was a white haired blonde went to kindergarten with a 50 – 50 mix- expat to Nigerians. He came home one day and told my mom “I got invited to a friend’s b day party today!” My mom asked if he was white or black and he said ” oh, I don’t know I will ask him tomorrow”
That says everything about kids and what we need to learn from them.
Great post, Erin.
(I read/talked to my kids about sex ed WAYYYYYY too early and I regret it- I missed the deep and wonderful, or funny and brief conversation that could have been meaningful at the right age- just something to consider)
Anyone who refers to different ethnic backgrounds as Race offends me.We are all of the same RACE – the human race. Even Oprah has brought this up in the past. When forms ask you what race you are ? Really ? I am pretty sure I am human – as apposed to say ‘Dog’. But of course we all have different ethnic backgrounds.
Multiculturalism is about learning about CULTURES , history, and communities. I do talk to my children about different cultures. Yesterday we drove past a Mandir (hindu Temple) and I took the time to share what the temple was and what I knew of Hinduism as a culture and faith. (We are Christian). I also mentioned that India has more then one unique culture and we shouldn’t assume everyone from India is Hindu.
It is different here (in Canada) then in the USA – The USA is more of a melting pot. I think overall Canada is a more true ‘multicultural society’ where different cultures are celebrated (look at folkfest and even celebration of different cultural events such as the Chinese new year in public schools).
Thanks, Erin 🙂
Yes, I think it is different here than in the US. If the American news media depictions of US black culture are accurate, Canadian society is far more tolerant and more integrated. Lawrence Hill (author of The Book of Negroes) wrote about being black and white in Canada in Black Berry Sweet Juice: http://www.lawrencehill.com/black_berry_sweet_juice.html This man writes with a gorgeous, almost musical rhythm. It’s a good read.
I think ethnic tolerance also varies by region. Addressing issues surrounding ethnicity was far more difficult for my family when I was a child going to school in rural Alberta, than it has been for me as an adult raising my children in Edmonton. Similar to Christine’s experience, I think living in a community with every race and religion facilitates tolerance on so many levels. We have ethnic gang issues here, too. But, in my opinion, that racial tension is just the flashiest symptom of ongoing problems with literacy, poverty, and education. It cannot be compared what goes on in the southern United States.
Desi, what a wonderful multicultural family! Thanks for sharing all the different traditions and how you address questions and observations about differences.
I think the chapter focussed only on how white people deal with race within the families and school system. Interestingly, the book did not quote the stats for the black kids in the picture/drawing study of 100 white ad 100 black kids. I’d like to look that one up to find out if the results were very different. The think about stats is, they can be presented in many different ways.
Do you think that it is different here than in the US?
I think it’s great that he asks all those questions, and that people answer him. Amazing.
The book is very interesting. I might just try to look up some of the studies that are quoted because it is fascinating.
That’s really kind of you, Jen. Thanks 🙂
Brilliant. I don’t know what else to say. Simply brilliant.
Thank you for taking the time to post this comment here. I have definitely learned from you.
I take the “they ask, I answer completely and honestly” approach to issues like this one. When my daughter asked me what “race” means, I told her it’s a word some people use to explain how they’re different from each other. She told me that sounded pretty dumb, since everyone looks different from each other, and I agreed, so we talked about ethnicity, instead.
I am am a woman who identifies as “black” (my parents are German/Irish and Nigerian, respectively). I married a half-Jamaican man from a light-skinned family. My brother (who is caucasian), married a Fijian/East-Indian woman, so my niece has dark skin and straight, black hair. On my husband’s side, my kids have cousins who are Jamaican/Vietanamese, Jamaican/Mauritian, and Jamaican/Flemish. In my dayhome I have kids born in Canada with families from Hong Kong, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, and the Ukraine. And my mother runs a foster home with both caucasian and aboriginal children. At three and five, my kids have a weak understanding of “race” and a very strong awareness of physical and cultural diversity. They don’t get “different”, yet. They understand their cousins and friends have Asian eyes, or brown skin, or blue eyes, or blonde hair the same way they understand that my daughter looks like Auntie Liz with Mummy’s eyes and Papa’s toes. And how we have akee and saltfish at Easter, and give them little red envelopes with fives inside for Chinese New Year.
We’ve come so far from the time when I was the only black girl in an all-white school. Racism is not behind us (I’m not THAT naive), but I don’t believe it will smother us here, ever again. And I think it’s a generation of parents answering their kids questions calmly, and rationally, and lovingly, that is making the end of racism a real possibility in my kids’ lifetime. We’ll get there.
I was born in Etobicoke and raised in Bramalea.
From as far back as my memory serves me I remember having friends from all race and religions. It was one on the main reasons why my parents left Belfast and came to Canada – so we could grow up in a tolerant society. They may have had a harder time discussing race with us because of how they were raised – in a very intolerant, volatile environment.
I suppose it’s a little different in our case. My boy is a curious one and asks a lot of questions about alot of things and we always answer them.
We have a biracial niece and Cuyler has asked about her different skin colour.
He is the first to comment on what he notices in people and ask overtly “What’s on your head?” “Is your mom brown and your dad is not?” “How old are you?” “Do you have a baby in your tummy?” “Are you bald like my dad?”
I have found that in every instance people have been appreciative of his non-filtered curiosity. I have never once felt embarrassed by his questions and we (or they) simply answer them.
Interesting stats you posted…
Jen – I love the story of your girl and her little friend at the pool!!
Jen, the entire book is fascinating and the authors to reference many studies to support their findings. Of course, there’s always a new study to debunk a previous one in social sciences (and science for that matter).
I do find it interesting that the Introduction is entitled, “Why our instincts about children can be so off the mark”. I think that my instinct would be not to point it out either. But the reality is there are differences and kids notice them.
One study showed that “kids are developmentally prone to in-group favouritism; they’re going to form these preferences on their own. Children categorize everything from fodd to toys to people at a young age. However, it takes years before their cognitive abilities allow them to successfully us more than one attribute to categorize anything. In the meantime, the attribute they rely on is that which is the most clearly visible.” p. 53
The study goes on to show that once a child identifies someone as most closely resembling herself, the child likes that person the most.
Another study by Dr. Phyllis Katz, followed 100 black children and 100 white children for their first six years. At three the children were shown photographs of other children and asked them to choose whom they’d like to have as friends. Of the white children, 86% chose children of their own race. At age six, the children were given a small dec k of cards with drawings of people on them. The children were asked to sort the cards anyway they wanted to. 16% sorted by sex, 16% used a variety of other factors and 68% used race.
Several studies also point to a possibility developmental window. These studies show that the window may close by grade three.
It’s all very interesting. I highly recommend the book which also talks about praise, sleep, lying, siblings and more.
This is interesting, Erin. What worries me a bit, though, is that kids then become aware of “difference” or race when they weren’t before and it starts to become a “thing”. My daughter met one of her good friends when she was 6. He is black. It never came up between the kids. I am not sure they even noticed to be honest which I adore. What did happen was that with some interactions they began to notice things. Not specific to “race” but, for example, she was enamored with his spongy hair. When they were in the pool one day they kept experimenting with him going under and coming up and his hair stayed dry then my daughter would go under and her hair would be wet. They thought it was hilarious and talked a lot about this. I worry that if his mom and I had stepped in and opened up a discussion about race whether this would have changed the sweet innocence of their self-discovery?
Just a thought. I am going to put some more thought into what you say above.