There are some common arguments against unschooling/homeschooling that I would like to address here. Please try to keep an open mind.
Socialization. From all that I’ve read, many children who unschool are often better socialized than kids at school. They can relate to a variety of people at different ages. They do not get caught up in the schoolyard rivalry, teasing and bullying as often (if at all). Plenty of opportunities can be found for socializing with other children. Sports, lessons, play dates, meeting with other unschoolers, etc. Read Miranda & Idzie’s blogs, as well as, Kerri’s comment on my first unschooling post to see how unschooled kids do socially.
Gaps in knowledge. Some argue that unschoolers may have large gaps in their knowledge. Well what is important to know? Who decides? Everyone has gaps in their knowledge. Have you ever met someone who is an expert on everything? Isn’t it more important to learn how to access, analyze and evaluate information? As long as unschooling parents engage with their children and expose them to lots of ideas that can be used at launching points, I don’t think there will be gaps compared with school children.
School prepares children for work. Really? How? Other than the piece of paper one gets upon graduation, how does it prepare children for jobs? I guess you could say they learn to read, write and do math. They can learn those skills at home. They learn to please the teacher, maybe that will help one deal with the boss, but at what expense? I remember rebelling against that; the whole, figure out what the teacher wants and do it, thing. I guess you could say they learn to analyze….yes, many do, but not on their own terms. On the other hand, maybe it does prepare them for most jobs, because in those jobs you have a hierarchy, the lower echelons are usually abused to some extent, the people who work hard are often not rewarded, honesty is not rewarded, etc., etc. I need to think about this one some more.
What about University? If an unschooler wants to go, s/he can, it’s that simple. Many do go and do very well.
What about functioning in the real world? I don’t think that school is really like the real world at all. At school children are herded into groups based simply on the year they were born, rather than developmental stage, interests, etc. The institution of school is a social construct. It separates information into subjects that can’t be separated. School tries to pigeonhole kids into little boxes based on what administrative types decide is important to know and at which age. This often leads to a strong dislike of school and learning, a very unfortunate reality. Children love to learn. Schools often stifle that love.
Further arguments for unschooling:
Schools support the institutional/economic system:
“The whole
educational and professional training system is a very elaborate
filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who
think for themselves, and who don’t know how to be submissive, and so
on — because they’re dysfunctional to the institutions.” – Noam Chomsky
I realize that it is ironic that I am writing this after coming back from an exciting pd conference on critical thinking, I was really jazzed up about it. What often happens after great pd is that I have a hard time applying it well within the system. I don’t think that is my problem, I think it is a problem with the system. The beaureaucracy & systemic contraints are truly stifling.
How many people really and truly think for themselves in our culture? Is public education the culprit? Can unschooling change that?
Erin, what an amazing and well-informed post! I agree with Brenda’s comment that “the system is archaic and underfunded”. I have been dissillusioned with the education system for awhile now. My daughter is a delightful 6 year old who is bright, intelligent, creative and full of energy, as I’m sure all of your children are. She marches to her own drummer and if the rules don’t make sense she’s not much interested in following them. I support her in her worldview but unfortunately the system does not. Like Sara, I have a great deal of admiration for SAHM’s and those that homeschool and unschool their children. I know that there are people who love to teach and open their homes to homeschool/unschool other people’s children as it is legal here in Ontario. Do any of you know someone in Pickering/surrounding area that would be delighted to homeschool/unschool my daughter? It’s so refreshing to communicate with those of like-mind and I look forward to reading more comments on this thread.
(I tried to reply to Jen once already, and the message never showed up, so I’m trying again…)
Jen, you might find the unschooling 101 page on my blog helpful in understanding unschooling and many of the common misconceptions people have about it: http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com/p/new-to-this-blog-new-to-unschooling.html
Preach it sista! My kids have been asking to be home schooled for a while now. I keep mulling it over and my un-decision means they keep slogging it out at school where they don’t fit in. Every day they get “in trouble” for not conforming …or asking for reasons why they are being asked to do certain things. I got a note from my son’s teacher remarking that sometimes he questions authority. I guess that was supposed to be a bad thing. I said good and remarked that I hoped he did so with respect. I got no return comment on that. I need the courage to make a plan to get my kids out of school. I agree that there is little or no desirable socialization going on at school. The system is archaic and underfunded. There are way too many kids in a class for a teacher to be able to teach all kids according to their strengths. I could rant on this topic forever but I can’t figure out what stops me from taking action. See More
Karen,
I see that I missed this one last night so it got posted to the blog after my replies. Thank you so much for the information about university/post graduate studies and homeschooling. I don’t think that many people realize that many homeschooled kids go on to study.
Erin
Jen, I wanted to pick up on your comment here:
But the structure and learning our children get from school prepares them for the structure and reality of the real world. Most jobs are not “me” led. You report to someone, you do things you don’t want to and things you love, you get exposed to things you never knew about, you have performance appraisals and there are expectations. Believe me, even when you are your own boss this is true.
I think school can help kids with these experiences but school is by no means the only or even the best opportunity for kids to internalize “real world” values. Participating in sports teams, drama presentations, music study, volunteering, part time jobs all do the same thing as school does in your example. I’d suggest that opportunities that kids are interested in or passionate about (ie extra curriculuars) actually provide them with an experience more like the work world. School children have little to no choice about the structure or content of their day, and because of the power structure and requirements inherent in schools they lack the freedom to effect real change or advocate for themselves in the way adults do within their jobs.
Wendy, I agree with you that there are kids who are homeschooled/unschooled who may not get the kind of education that you or I would want for them. But, for me, that is true of public school as well which has (in Ontario) something close to a 30% drop out rate.
There was an interesting study done a few years ago by the Fraser Institute on homeschooling. You can find the full text here.
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/publicationdisplay.aspx?id=13089&terms=homeschooling
The study found that homeschooling mitigates a number of factors which determine how well a child would do in public school including education of parents, gender, race, socio economic status. It also found that homeschooled kids participate regularly in 8 activities outside the home. I know for my kids they are regularly exposed to the ideas of others through their activities and our field trips, through what we read and watch and listen to, and through the people we interact with in our volunteer work.
In that respect, doesn’t work any differently for my homeschooled kids than it does for us as adults.
hth
Karen
I’ve sent Karen a direct email, but I want all of you to know that if you are a member of the urbanmoms community, your posts show up immediately. If not, your posts wait until I can read them and approve them. I approve all comments but I generally do not look during the day because I am too busy at work. So, usually you will see you comment show up between 5-10 PM.
I really appreciate all of the comments, I think this is a great discussion.
TEST
Hi Erin
I’ve sent 3 responses to these posts and none of them have been posted.
I am not sure what kind of time lag there is or if they are being lost in cyber space but I thought I would try a test comment.
thanks
Karen
No easy answers.
I still would never “unschool” even though I am a teacher. I would just choose to teach the things I’m good at and there would be a huge bias in my thoughts and opinions. I want my kids exposed to other people’s ideas.
I have seen my sister-in-law homeschool. It’s a little like this – “Do these pages in your math book. I’m going shopping, I’ll correct them when I get back”. She corrects them, then assigns something else while she goes about other errands. 2 of her three children have attempted to go back into the system without any success. The third one didn’t like being homeschooled and opted to go back so that she could socialize.
I know lots of children have great experiences being unschooled, but (and I’m being facetious here), the ones that have been underserved may not even be able to string a sentence together let alone participate in this conversation.
I am going to be totally honest here. I have read and re-read all three of the recent posts about Unschooling and I still don’t totally get it. How does it WORK? How can a child decide what they want to learn if they don’t know what there is to learn? I am not being critical I truly don’t understand. If I were to Unschool my kids we would spend all of our time playing sports.
I look at this from my personal experience, if I had not been exposed to things outside of my world or the world of my parents or community through school how would I (let alone my parents) every have known to ask about it?
I think child-led is a great philosophy in addition to a formal education (whether in school or at home). For example, I took my then 9 year-old to London and Paris. He missed a week of school, we read about the history of these places and the culture and went exploring to the places he was most interested in when we got there. They ranged from castles to cheese shops to the Eiffel Tower. Did this replace school? Yes. For a week. And it was a fabulous week.
But the structure and learning our children get from school prepares them for the structure and reality of the real world. Most jobs are not “me” led. You report to someone, you do things you don’t want to and things you love, you get exposed to things you never knew about, you have performance appraisals and there are expectations. Believe me, even when you are your own boss this is true.
Child led learning is fabulous but 100% child led learning, in my opinion, does not prepare them for most modern day jobs. The world does not revolve around their needs and can’t meet all of their wants but finding a way to thrive within the context of these boundaries will help them to thrive in the real world.
Sara – I love your plan. How about we compromise on Huntsville?
I don’t see why someone else couldn’t unschool, I know there are lots of networks of home/unschoolers out there.
Ali, I think the distinction is that homeschooling is bringing school into the home. It is following a set curriculum. Unschooling is learning based on the interests of the child. I think that most children would have a fairly wide range of interests if they are exposed to a lot of ideas. Unschooling requires a paradigm shift away from scripted curriculum towards a more open concept of learning. I hope that helps a little.
Idzie, I really appreciate your input here and am very much enjoying your blog!
Everyone, I don’t think this post was totally coherent. I’m not yet able to fully articulate what I think about the system and society. I’m also constrained by my job, I have to tread carefully. I’m working on it though and I look forward to the continuing discussion.
Virtually all colleges and universities in North America accept home educated applicants (I haven’t heard of any that don’t, besides CEGEP’s in Quebec, and some colleges even specifically search them out!), and unschooling does fall under the wider home education banner. An unschooler would go about applying to a college or university the same way a homeschooler would (homeschoolers don’t usually have transcripts, either). Ways you can gain entrance to universities, varying by university and program are: portfolio (a good way to do this is to compile a portfolio, have it assessed by a certified teacher, then bring that assessment to the college/university); interview; college/university administered tests; taking the SAT or similar; taking the tests to get your high school diploma. Many people I know have simply taking the SAT, and along with interviews or whatever, they’ve had no troubles.
I am Canadian (I’m from Montreal), and all the universities in this city accept home learners, so it’s not just something that American colleges are doing.
HI Ali
Most universities don’t distinguish between unschoolers and homeschoolers.
Unschoolers who wish to attend university follow the same protocol that homeschoolers do. And the vast majority of universities and colleges in NA have some kind of policy for homeschoolers.
Most schools allow or require some combination of elements in an application. Homeschoolers and unschoolers can assemble a portfolio, supply resource lists, outline courses of study and outside classes, provide SAT/ACT or AP exam marks, choose an interview format, sumbit letters of recommendation. Unschoolers and their parents can craft a “transcript” of sorts if the schools require it.
Sarah Rainsberger has worked with a number of universities on admission policies through her advocacy work with OFTP and other organizations has a blog for homeschoolers interested in pursuing post secondary education. http://www.rainsberger.ca/blog/ One of the posts highlighted on her blog is called 6 ways to get into university without an official high school transcript.
She came to speak to our homeschool group last year and outlined 6 paths homeschoolers and unschoolers can take to get into university. (As a homeschooler, it’s actually easier to get into a university than a college in Canada and far far easier to get into a university in the US). For a typical high school applicant in Canada, applications rely almost exclusively on marks and rankings. However universities also hold a percentage of spots for non traditional highschool students (mature students, international students, transfers students, homeschoolers etc) and these students follow a different assessment path than the typical highschool students.
I think there is a disconnect happening. I get the sense that you may think that unschoolers don’t do any kind of academically trackable learning which is clearly not the case. Just because their learning doesn’t follow a prescribed scope and sequence written by some educrat doesn’t mean they don’t arrive at a similar place in their education on their own volition.
My oldest child is 12 and essentially unschooled. Right now he is working his way through a series of calculus resources and civics books because he wants to learn about those topics. I imagine he will delve in as deeply as he is interested and able to and then come back to these topics over time as his knowledge base expands. I will keep a list of those resources for future use for transcripts if he needs them as well as a list of field trips, clubs, programs, lectures, volunteer activites etc he participates in as part of his learning on these topics.
It’s actually quite easy to craft a transcript for my unschooled child – all my homeschooled kids really and I track their learning so that we could put one together if necessary. It’s just that the transcript (in the form you are thinking of) may not be necessary for my kids to access university.
Hope this helps.
Karen
I am definitely learning a lot…I am glad you brought these posts here to urbanmoms, since honestly, I didn’t know very much about unschooling, except for what I have read or heard about
BUT, I think there’s something really important that people keep missing…the people who keep commenting back to me when I question the logistics of unschooling…the thing that’s missing is that HOMESCHOOLING AND UNSCHOOLING are not the same thing. I understand homeschooling. It makes sense to me. While it isn’t for me personally, I know MANY people, including family members, who have been homeschooled and have gone on to very successful lives and careers etc. and those same people are homeschooling their children and for the most part, I think it’s great. There are some instances where I DO think children with extra or special needs need to be in different environments than at home, but that’s a discussion for another time.
I just remember when I was applying to colleges and universities, both in the states and in Canada, and I was REQUIRED to supply a TRANSCRIPT from my high school. Without a transcript, I couldn’t even apply. Actually, it was more heavily based on high school grades and transcripts than in the states, which was based on standardized tests as well (like SAT, ACT, SAT 2 etc.) So, how does an unschooled child get around this? Not having ANY transcript at all? Colleges and Universities are competitive. I mean, I applied to Brown when I was in high school, and they wouldnt’ even consider you unless you have a certain GPA. If you have no GPA at all, how can you apply to Brown?
Hey Erin
I’m LOVING these posts. I’m learning so much and thinking so much differently. Don’t laugh at this question but can kids go to others for unschooling? i.e. I love the concept of this type of learning but I know for a fact, that I just couldn’t do it myself. I know I’m a better parent because we aren’t together all the time. In the same way I could never be a stay at home mom (I bow to all of you SAHMs) I couldn’t be Will’s unschooling teacher. Wait – maybe I should move up there…and you can unschool them all and I’ll work outside the home…:)