So I was surfing around this evening and came across this post on momcrunch, which references a post originally written on She Posts about a now-closed blog called “Psycho Ex-Wife”. This blog is essentially the brainchild of a man and his current partner (they’re not married; whether that’s relevant or not I’ll leave up to you) in which they chronicle the antics of the “Psycho Ex-Wife”. Essentially, it’s a one-sided bitch-fest about the ex-wife.
But that’s not what I intended to write about. What interested me in this story was the free speech debate that’s taking place around it. A family court judge recently ordered the owners of Psycho Ex-Wife to shut the blog down, which has become a (surprisingly?) polarizing decision.
The camps are divided thus: that Psycho Ex-Wife was a site “intended to help people in similar situations”, and shutting it down represents an attack on the authors’ right to free speech. This is the stance taken by She Posts. On the other side of the debate is the momcrunch post, pointing out that any kind of public bitching about the other parent is unacceptable, because the kids just might (in fact, probably will) eventually find it.
At first, I was squarely on the momcrunch side. I mean, really…let’s all be grownups. No matter what kind of crazy the other parent gets up to, it’s just not kosher to dis them publicly like that. And after I went to the site (yes, the main page has been shut down, but just click on any of the links in history and you can find all the original posts still cached and easily accessible) and read some of the posts, I was stunned. The level of ongoing anger is very, very high. These are two people who really, really hate the PEW (as she is referred to on the blog). Yikes…obviously there is still a great deal of hostility and hurt involved in this situation. No matter whether the children find the blog or not – they must be affected by the way their parents (and step-parent) feel about each other. They simply couldn’t not be.
So that’s what I originally intended to write about: is it a matter of free speech? Should the authors of Psycho Ex-Wife be allowed to publish their feelings about the ex? And also: is there any way they can really, truly shelter their children from finding it? It’s an interesting enough question on its own.
But then I read the biographical information on Psycho Ex-Wife. Here’s an excerpt:
The Psycho Ex Wife is the true account of a marriage, divorce, and subsequent custody fight between a loving man, his terroristic ex-wife who we suspect suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder (at least from our armchair psychologist diagnosis), and the husband’s new partner.
And I took pause. For a number of reasons. First of all, can any one-sided account really be “true”? An obviously rhetorical question. And take a look at the adjectives “a loving man, his terroristic ex-wife” — they certainly imply a judgmental point of view. But what really caught my attention was the “armchair psychologist diagnosis” of Borderline Personality Disorder. Having personal experience in living with someone diagnosed by not one but two legitimate, qualified (non-armchair) psychologists, I know what it is like. So that remark inclined me to be a little more tolerant of the difficulty the ex-husband may have experienced (if his ex-wife does indeed suffer from BPD). And a little more tolerant of his need to vent. Because, you know, I get that.
On the other hand, though, I also know that if his ex-wife really does have BPD, his pain in dealing with her is peanuts compared to the pain that is her daily life with this disorder. And truth be told, I also know that the real innocents in this situation are (as in all divorces) the children. Being a child with a BPD parent is scary. It’s unpredictable. It’s like walking on eggshells every single day. And now on top of all that, the children’s other parent and his new partner spend an awful lot of time and energy (but evidently not too much money: they have a new site called SaveThePsychoExWife.com where they canvas donations to “fight for your right to Free Speech in custody cases”) on a public blog trashing their mother’s behaviour.
I say it’s shameful.
If they really believe the PEW suffers from a serious mental illness (and make no mistake, BPD is a very serious illness – the suicide rate is between 8-10 percent; that and self-harming behaviour are two of the hallmarks of this condition), then creating a blog on which to trash her is not only really cheap, it’s downright negligent. If this man and his partner really believe the mother of his children suffers from BPD, they should be reaching out to help. For starters, they can learn some strategies for communicating more effectively with a person with BPD (there are several excellent books available). They can get the kids into therapy. They can try to minimize conflict (instead of inflaming it). They could have willingly taken down the Psycho Ex-Wife blog (really taken it down, not the half-hearted measures they have actually taken) once she found out about it just as a common courtesy to a fellow human being.
I don’t know. The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. As I’ve said, I do get the frustration, and I know that this man must need to vent. And on the surface, an anonymous blog seems like a good option. But really: once the other person finds out about it, does it really make sense to not only keep it going but to go to court (all the way to the Supreme Court is what they intend) to fight for the right to do so? It doesn’t make sense to me.
And if they win, what does it prove? If she really is “psycho”, then all they’ve done is to win an argument with a crazy person. It’s like I tell myself when my tween daughter argues with me…”don’t even go there: do you want to congratulate yourself for winning an argument with a 10 year-old?” Because in the end: what will it accomplish? Nothing but bad feelings on both sides. And that’s how I see this. Two parties who have become so entrenched in their positions that they don’t have the perspective to see how ridiculous it actually is.
The poor, poor children.
Okay, there will be 50 comments on here if I respond to everyone individually, so I’m going to try to express myself in one comment. 😉
I understand and appreciate that a lot of people have found much-needed support and sympathy and understanding from the PEW site. That is wonderful and worthwhile.
Unfortunately the format that the site took has contributed to the current conflict, and that means that the parts of the site that were indeed helpful (and not just vengeful or angry) have been closed to readers as well. That’s unfortunate.
And of course there are many sad, damaging and even dangerous situations out there involving children whose parents suffer from mental illness, whether inside an intact marriage or in a separated/divorced scenario. I don’t dispute the needs/rights of the stable parent to fight for their children’s safety (emotional and physical) in these situations. All I said (and it was only an opinion) was that I didn’t think this was the best approach to that end.
Hope this helps clarify my views.
Sarah, I appreciate your frustration. I will be totally honest with you when I say that in answer to your questions “what would you do…” my answer to all of them is a definitive “not write about it on the internet”.
I suppose what I would do is try to resolve it through “proper” channels: lawyer, courts, mediator, counselor. Then again, separation/divorce/custody is handled differently in Canada than in the US.
“The mother showed the children the father’s web site. Not the father.”
But here’s the real question: if the blog was anonymous, how did the mother find it? I’m not trying to inflame further debate, I’m just pointing out that once she found it, their anonymity ended.
Also, I’m not debating the man’s right to fight for custody of his children if his ex-wife did behave in the way he and his partner claim she did. I don’t have an opinion on that issue – unfortunately that’s up to the courts, and I think that in the US (I’m in Canada so it’s very different) these cases can be very complicated.
Amy, I appreciate your comments, thank you for sharing them. I do hope everything works out best for this family. If their site has been as helpful to other families as you suggest, perhaps there’s a way they can keep the “good” (as in, non-inflammatory) parts live.
As for the search-engine argument (re: the “psycho ex-wife” phrase), I know when I was doing internet searches for help understanding/coping/communicating/living with a person with BPD, the term “psycho ex” didn’t figure even once in any of my searches. I searched phrases like: “borderline personality disorder”, “BPD” or “mental illness”. So I’m still somewhat wary of their claim that the *only* reason they chose that term was for SEO reasons.
Well it sounds to me like the issue here is with the family courts. If the mother really is all those things, she should be denied access to her children. I still stand by my original reaction (and my opinion which is, after all, only an opinion) that lashing out online isn’t the best or most productive response.
I am a different person than the other poster with the same name as me.
But I do have a story quite similar to theirs. I have been dating a man with a BPD Ex-Wife for 2.5 years. Like others in our shoes, she has caused all kinds of havoc, making threats and generally being the type of person you don’t want to be around. I’ve had personally to deal with this woman making threats to me, taking a baseball bat to my old car, showing up at my job and causing a scene repeatedly. Telling him I am such a witch for turning her into the cops and it’s my fault, she’s such a poor victim – all of us with a PEW know the victim game they play.
She would tell him how horrible he is, demanding he leave me and come back to her (they have been divorced the whole time we have been together). She also cries constantly about being broke and demanding more money, to which she is not entitled per the CO and we don’t give it to her. She tells their daughter how horrible he is for not giving her more money, how horrible he is for leaving her, how horrible I am for ruining their lives.
Guess what? Their daughter’s relationship is next to non-existant with her mother because of the drama and how she slanders her dad. Not cool.
We’ve gone No Contact with her, which has eliminated the Drama from our lives and we are soo much better off cause of it. Daughter is an adult, so she can contact BF if she needs anything directly.
This is someone who REFUSES to take her medication, she refuses to take psychotropic medication, as well as attend counseling OR take her insulin, she made herself into a ticking time bomb. Mr. M and DW have taught us valuable lessons for dealing with this type of a destructive person, who is also physically dangerous to us. She has showed up at our home, shoved her way past him and demanded to see me. Needless to say, there was severe and fast legal consequences for her actions.
Without Mr. M and DW’s hard work of putting the information out there, we would be up to our necks in drama constantly (going LC than NC has made SUCH a big difference, thank you!), as well as teaching the Daughter LC as a means to deal with her mothers hateful spew has significantly improved things for her, as well as teaching her concepts unique to PEWs that benefitted her (golden uterus and the like).
Mr. M did the best he could to keep it away from the children, PEW is the one to blame for the kids knowing about it. That person is dangerous for the kids and the Judge is an idiot for giving her custody back from someone who was actually doing whats best for the kids. The fact that PEW had a melt down because one of the kids made DW a mother’s card and didn’t make PEW one is not their fault, it’s PEW’s, the children should be with the people who will help them grow into well adjusted and respectful adults, and thats Mr. M and their step mom, DW.
They have done soo much good for people like us and our families to learn to deal with the terroristic PEWs. They have helped us, my parents and his daughter deal with her. Thanks!
Last Year I found myself the target of a suit to take away my custodial time with my two children. A plan laid over many months unfolded with barrage after barrage of assaults on my fatherhood. The fact that there was not an ounce of truth to any of the accusations did not matter, the machinations of a system in which the regular rule of law is mute gave creedence again and again to ever more outlandish assertions.
I felt isolated by the shame of the nature of the accusations, long after they were proven to agencies and professionals alike to have been false. I was overwhealmed by a system stacked against me by my gender. I was stripped threadbare by a lack of sleep and resources as I fended off and researched documentation to refute the stream of falsehoods.
And then, entirely by chance, I found the website.
Knowing I was not by any means alone, Knowing that the experiences with the system were by no means unique, and knowing what lay ahead, with a liberal dose of humor, wrested me back to sanity. For that I will always thank the community I found. For that,the website is as vital as any of the plethera of support forums that help thousands keep perspective each day.
I cannot help but wonder if some of the fervor to shut down the site stems from the monopoly of unchecked and unresponsive power enjoyed by the system’s participants and
benefactors, The judges unbound by law, the evaluation corporation that is forced upon the accused, who take hideous sums and remind you brisquely of their power to take away your children if you are not docile and compliant. The therapist assigned and assigned again in an endless “pass of the jug” to drain the parents whether the children have been harmed or not. The parenting ‘clases’ and counselors who are assigned with a cursory wave, whether evidenced to be in need or not because “it can’t hurt and it’s only another 200.00, is that worth it to keep seeing your children?”
And maybe thats the problem; that letting people communicate might address: that we have allowed a system to fester that runs so contrary to every notion we have of American justice, and that such a system perniciously holds our most treasured relationship hostage to our silent compliance, that were its dimensions to be public knowledge, the electorate would insist on it’s redress.
My name is cleared, it is doubtful I will lose the children I have devoted my heart to, but my health is ruined from nearly a year without sleep, my finances are depleted defending against the most dangerous slander and perjury. And my relationship with my children will bear a jagged scar from the experience. Meanwhile, the person who has admitted to engineering the false accusations faces no possibilty of responsibility in this court, no penalty for the damage inflicted on the children, no infringement on her right to repeat the cycle at will.
And for that, this website is vital.
I admit the name is incindiary, but the advice and community is not.
I got involved with a man with a “crazy” ex wife. The first few years I stayed out of it and tried to help him cope/deal with her…which never worked. Our life was consumed with everything she did and she was alienating the children from my husband.
I found the PEW site and immediately connected with it. From the site I learned how to not let her get to us anymore and we began to have a happier marriage despite her denying visits and making up nonstop lies to block communication.
Earlier this year she tried to kill herself and my 2 step kids.
The site HELPED my family survive. There are no real names revealed on the blogs…unlike the many blogs our PEW posted on her myspace about my husband and myself.
What is the difference in the PEW site blog and any other blog? People post to vent and to get help. The PEW site was there to help all of us who are dealing with a PEW…because if you really were dealing with Psycho Ex you feel alone because no one really understands or believes half the stuff you say that happens and all the advice people give does not work! If you have NEVER experienced a PE then you do not understand. I didn’t understand or believe all the stories in the beginning.
No consideration was made?
Lady, these people are trying to save their children from a walking disaster of a woman. She is an admitted alcoholic who gets so blotto that her young teenage sons have to drag her up to bed. And she makes them lie about it.
No consideration?
Which is worse: A woman destroying her children, or an ex-husband blogging *anonymously* about it? Get your priorities straight and stop shooting the messenger.
If you have ever been terrorized by an ex, this is an excellent site. Please allow me to explain as I am a reader.
The site is not about bashing his ex, otherwise we would have known who she was before the press release. Rather, he uses examples of interactions between his ex and himself to show what he did right and what he should have done differently. But he spends much more time talking about low contact with the high-conflict ex, mental disorders and how people with them think, and the broken system that is child supports and the courts. If you dealt with a high conflict spouse (and I have as defined as a person who so wants to stick it to me, that she will not think for a minute about how her actions affect our son, who lives with me), you can relate to a lot of these posts.
I credit this site and it’s posters for helping me craft a low contact relationship with my ex in such a way that our son benefits.
Further, not only is taking this site down a clear violation of free speech, it was ordered down without giving either side the chance to present evidence. If this is allowed, what’s next? Facebook posts, private blogs? Journals that children might see if they snoop in your room?
I understand that you are commenting second-hand on something that you did not actually read–because the author of the Blog had his 1st amendment rights infringed. However, you need to know that less than a third of all the blog posts on The Psycho-exwife referred in any way to the author’s ex-wife. Those posts were ALWAYS about trying to handle an attacking, obscene, or inflammatory email, voicemail, or other contact INITIATED by the ex-wife, In other words, they were not posts simply arbitrarily writing in a “bitch fest.”
Despite the quirky name (which was chosen after research on what would help the most people to find the site), the PEW.com was in innovative and invaluable resource for those people caught in the nightmare of extended family dynamics with a high conflict ex-spouse (men and women, by the way).
Having been a reader of the site since its inception, I can vouch for the continual concern and care the author and his partner have exhibited for the children–and the utterly self-centered lack of care shown by the ex. I do not believe that they have added any “fuel to the fire,” which was already burning very brightly on its own. Quite the opposite: they have exercised as much damage limitation as possible. The existence of the site, which the children have never read, is a red herring. They are subjected day to day to inappropriate and uncaring treatment at the hands of their own disturbed mother.
Try a thought experiment–and be honest–if the genders were reversed in this situation, and it was a mother blogging about the ongoing abuse of her alcoholic, disturbed ex-husband–how would you respond?
I agree with Amy 100% and your right..the poor poor children. When your ex spouse interferes with schooling, doctors, therapists or just a regular parental visit. THE POOR POOR CHILDREN!!! The phsyco ex wife has been a fantastic tool to help us gain the rights that we, as a loving caring father and “wicked step mom” are entitled too.
1)When your ex spouse prevents you from spending a weekend with your children because she “thinks” your license is suspended and causes a huge scene in front of your children and FORCES you to sign a paper stating that your license is in good standing …What would you do?
2)When you go to make an appointment for you child because he/she has an ear infection and you find out you have been taken of the contact list and therefore cannot get treatment with out PEW’s consent..EVEN THO IT IS COURT ordered…what would you do?
3)When you go to the school to speak to the guidance counselor because you know your 10 year old daughter is being subjected to a man that goes to the Methodone clinic on a daily basis and her mother is borrowing money for “food” and they have no heat when it is 10 degrees out and you would like the counselor to just touch base with her, so you know she has a trusted adult to talk to and the school wont talk to you about it because PEW didnt put you on the contact information…EVEN THO IT IS COURT ORDERED…what would you do?
4) You are brushing your 3 year olds hair and he says “ow” you ask him what is wrong and he says his step daddy punched him the head…why did step daddy punch you in the head? Because I peed the bed…What would you do?
5) When your ex spouse purposely schedules things on your time, and then INFORMS you at pickup. “oh btw asshole…she/he has a birthday party at 2 this afternoon and she BETTER be there” But you have a family function to attend…What would you do?
6) When you 4 year old is talking on a play cell phone and says “I’m calling the cops, your putting holes in the wall” …. What would you do?
7) When your 3 year old tells you that step daddy spanks mommy’s face…what would you do??
I could go on and on. You mention that it is a bitch fest. I heard write it on a paper, talk to a friend, family, coworker. People get sick of listening to it, it isnt as simple as listening to a friend that has just broken up with a boyfriend….because that only goes on for about a month or two and they are over it. THIS IS A LIFETIME for us…Our POOR POOR children are involved in this.
The term “dead beat dad” is thrown around so often that it is a common household term. Yet..did one ever EVER stop to think that maybe it was easier to walk away from the kids because of the PCYCHO EX WIFE interfering all the time. This website helps EVERYONE so that we can try to work through the fact that we are dealing with an “insane” person, that obviously doesnt have the best interest of the children at heart.
I hope to hear your answers to my questions shortly.
Thank you.
I agree with Amy.
I just recently divorced a man with a high conflict personality after a 25+ year marriage. On thepsychoexwife.com I learned strategies to help me deal with my ex-husband. I have two minor children still at home and the conflict and stress levels have gone way down now that I’ve learned the principles of low contact. And, yes, it helps to laugh at his delusions instead of crying or wondering if I’m the crazy one.
There was no where else on the internet or in real life where I could vent or talk about my problems. Nobody really “gets it” when your ex-husband files new motions about stupid stuff on a monthly basis. My family and friends are really tired of hearing about it.
On thepsychoexwife.com, Mister-M was able to show mistakes that he’s made in the past and how he’s learned from them. And I’ve learned, too.
I think it’s a real shame that the judge ordered his blog to be taken down because I know there are other people out there dealing with a high conflict ex. They should be able to get the kind of help I’ve found.
I believe they *are* doing everything they can to minimize the trauma for the children — more importantly, they are helping other people do the same thing. There were tons of helpful resources. Thousands of helpful discussions. I am sorry that you didn’t find them. Based on what you say here in the comments, the site’s resources and the community that built around it could have been very helpful for you.
As for the word “psycho” — they have said many times over, including in the ShePosts article to which you link, that the URL was chosen entirely because those are the words people are using to search. It does not accurately summarize the content, but it does help people find the site.
It is worth noting that the blog was anonymous. I would never have known who the people behind the site were, if not for this judge’s ruling and the subsequent press.
The father posted anonymously. He did not show the children the blog. No names were mentioned anywhere, until this week when all the the appeal went public and hit the blogosphere.
The mother showed the children the father’s web site. Not the father.
So if you’re going to play the “think of the children!” card, you should blame the mother, and not the father. You know, the one who exhibits alcoholic and BPD behavior. Unless you feel that mothers should be given a free pass by society when they do things to harm their kids, merely because they might be mentally ill.
As far as “free speech” thing goes — consider if the father had instead gone to an Al-Anon meeting, and stood up and anonymously talked about how his ex-wife got blackout drunk and passed out in front of the children. And then the judge threatened that he continued to do that, he would be jailed and never see his children again.
Is that right?
Finally, there’s a lot to this tale that is not in the media stories, or the blog posts that people are making. If you want to get an idea of the travesty of justice that is occurring, read the two transcripts at http://www.savethepsychoexwife.com/diane-e-gibbons-orders-father-to-take-down-website/ . Watch as the judge admits that she has no facts, has not interviewed the children, has not heeded the Guardian ad Litem or psychologist’s reports. Instead, the judge chooses to remain ignorant, and instead threatens the father while allowing the mother to continue her abusive behavior.
Amy, in fact I *do* know, from my own personal experience. I have chosen not to blog about the specifics of my situation and the role BPD has had in my family’s life. As a result of my personal experience living with someone diagnosed with BPD, I also know that calling someone with BPD “psycho” is incredibly inflammatory. I read a lot of posts on the psycho ex-wife site (admittedly not all of them) and found it to be, on balance, a long litany of rants about the behaviour of the ex-wife. If there were resources or helpful discussions, I didn’t find them.
Anyway: separation/divorce/co-parenting with a BPD partner is much more complicated and painful than “regular” separation. I know. I feel their pain, and I know how much it helps to tell the stories out loud, and be validated that you, in fact, are not crazy. Your behaviour is not out of line. I know how a BPD-sufferer can twist everything into your fault, can make you feel like the irrational one, can make you feel like you’re in the wrong. You need that outside perspective – often – to help keep you grounded. I know all that. I just take issue with the form it has taken, and the fact that the children aren’t being protected. Having a BPD mom (especially if she blocks them from going to therapy) is enough of an emotional burden, without adding this fuel to the fire. BPD is also strongly influenced by genetics and childhood experiences: in order to protect their children from this mental illness themselves, they should be doing everything in their power to minimize further emotional trauma for them.
That’s just my opinion, as someone going through separation/divorce in the same landscape.
Hayley, you said it perfectly in your last sentence. Above all, no consideration for the children was involved in their decisions.
Totally, Chantel. The internet is soooo not the place for this. Probably a psychologist’s office would be a good place for it.
Good points, Julie. It’s like that old cliche about certain topics of conversation not being suited to “mixed company”.
Tracey, as always you sum it up perfectly. Tricky bitch…love it!
Nancy, I like your comment: “the high road is the best road”. Words to live by.
I think you missed the point of the site. Yes, a lot of the earlier posts were documenting the ex-wife’s bad behavior. But the site had turned into a great resource for people trying to deal with divorce from a high-conflict ex. Much information was shared about strategies, legal and otherwise, as well as communication methods to minimize conflict.
*Everything* you say that they should have done, they did. Not only did they read all the books on BPD, BPD mothers, divorcing someone with BPD, etc., but they recommended them to the others on the site, and we discussed information that we found in them. They discussed methods of parallel parenting when co-parenting is not an option. There was an entire section of the site dedicated to “low contact,” or reducing conflict by bare-bones communication. Finally, I believe they did try to get their kids into therapy, and were blocked by the ex-wife’s refusal. That happened to my husband with his kids as well.
I’m not sure you *do* understand what it’s like, when you share custody of children with someone who is incapable of seeing the children’s best interest and who constantly does harmful things in the interest of getting a conflict “fix.” For those of us going through it, no one in our lives can understand. Beyond a certain point, people stop believing that one person is capable of prolonging problems for so long, or they become fatigued of the topic and don’t want to hear about it anymore. The psycho ex-wife website had become the only place that people in our situation could find others who understand and get help that really works. It was an invaluable resource for fathers, mothers, stepmothers, and stepfathers alike.
I think you missed the point of the comment “armchair psychologist diagnosis”. I don’t think either of them believe the ex-wife has BPD. I think it was used in the same way you say someone is crazy. It doesn’t really mean you think they are certifiably insane, it just means you think whatever they did or however they acted seemed out in left field to you. I think that makes their comments even worst because now they are saying people with BPD are psycho and terroristic and any other negative words they used in their blog to describe the ex-wife. My question is how can they be willing to fight so hard for their freedom of speech but let their children’s mental health be damned!!
wow that is pretty wild. I have to say though that in my opinion it sounds like a bitching fest rather that a site to help. Not good nor in my opinion heathy or the right place for it. The real victims here however are for sure the children. What a shame.
“don’t even go there: do you want to congratulate yourself for winning an argument with a 10 year-old?”
okay, so there are some good words of wisdom…i’m putting that in my mom rule book along with ali martell’s make them hold hands idea…
my take is if you wouldn’t say it at thanksgiving or at the coffee shop with your friends, why would you anonymously blog about it? that’s what paper diaries are for! i agree with writing down all your thoughts and frustrations but you can at least burn the pages! maybe it’s her attempt at humour but when it’s hurting the kids, it ain’t cool!
Karma can be a tricky bitch. That’s all I’m gonna say about that.
(And yes – the poor, poor children… it’s all such a shame.)
good one, Kath
the high road is the best road.
‘objective truths’ and tendencies bubble to the top on their own and we all have better things to do then spend our days ranting.
Choose a best friend or two or a trusted family member and rant every now and then.
Take up jogging and yoga or maybe better kick boxing (!)and get on with life, right?
Wow! I am always amazed at the level of anger some people choose to live with. Don’t they just want to try and move on. And, of course, you are right, what about the children?