Back in September when I wrote this post I opened up on the fact that I am an atheist. It’s something I’ve sidestepped around for all the years I’ve been blogging on UrbanMoms, although I’ve always been very open about it on my other blog, thisiskat. One of my readers, Maria, commented that she’d be interested in hearing how/why I lost any beliefs I once had.
Well Maria, happy to oblige! In a lot of ways, it’s an opportunity I’ve been waiting to write about. I’m very fond of Richard Dawkins’ out campaign, and I will admit that it was reading about this campaign that finally gave me the courage to be open and honest and to call a spade a spade. So instead of saying, “I’m not really religious” or “we don’t go to church”, I now tell people who ask that I’m an atheist. When my kids ask me if I believe in God, I tell them the truth: I don’t. When other people’s kids ask (because they often incredulously put my own kids up to asking, “Mommy do you really NOT believe in God? Lauren doesn’t believe me that you don’t!”) I tell them the truth. No, I don’t believe in God. As an aside: one of my friend’s daughters — as a dutiful Catholic schoolgirl — told me, “you’ll find out the hard way when you die and don’t go up there!” LOL
So the idea behind the campaign is this: come out. Don’t be a closet atheist, as I was for many, many years. The truth is, atheists are more numerous than many people imagine, but many people are afraid (for whatever reason) to own up to their beliefs. I know I was. In fact, it took me pretty much two decades to even admit that I was, in fact, an atheist, and not an agnostic.
To begin with, I was raised in a Christian household. My sisters and I accompanied our mother and grandmother to church every Sunday until I was about 14 years old. It’s funny, because my Dad and grandfather almost never came to church with us, and when they did, it was usually just to hear us sing in the choir or something. As a result, I’ve always seen religious men as being a little unusual. To me religion was sort of something the women did and the men tolerated but never really bought into 100%, like soap operas. I still have this bias, and often have to stop and correct myself when I encounter religious families where the dad is just as involved as the mom!
So before I was 14 or so, I never questioned God’s existence, nor did I question anything I had been taught about God, Jesus, etc. But despite our regular church-going, ours wasn’t a traditional religious family. As I’ve already pointed out, the men in the family weren’t exactly behind the whole endeavour, and although they never spoke out against church or religion, everybody knew Dad and Grandfather didn’t believe in God. Also: we went to a United Church. You wouldn’t know it out here in Southern Alberta (Canada’s Bible Belt) but the United Church is Canada’s largest Protestant (that’s non-catholic, in case you didn’t know) Christian denomination. The United Church is…how shall we put it? Liberal. Inclusive. Open. They were one of the first churches to ordain women as ministers, and they were among the first Canadian Christian churches to perform gay marriages, having actively campaigned in favour of same-sex marriage before bill C-38 (legalizing same-sex marriage) was passed in 2005. So, you get the picture. This was never a fire-and-brimstone kind of Christianity that I was brought up in. Also: my sisters and I were never baptized as babies. Our parents told us that they wanted it left up to us to decide if we wanted to be members of a church. In the end, none of us decided to do so.
So from the beginning I guess I was brought up in a tolerant environment where religion was a matter of choice (and a choice based on reason), rather than a moral imperative. But until I was 14, I was very much interested in being a part of the church. I loved our church (St. John’s United in Oakville, ON). I was in the choir, in CGIT, in Sunday School and other church organizations. We went to social events, talks and festivals at our church. When I had my tonsils removed, the first person to visit me in the hospital was our minister, Reverend Campbell. In fact, had we not moved away from Oakville and that church community, I believe I would have stayed involved (and religious) a lot longer than I did.
But we didn’t. We moved into Toronto proper and I promptly joined up with the youth group at the local United Church. It was a bust for me. I found the group to be intolerant and far more dogmatic than I was used to. One of my good friends was disbarred from attending, because her mother was “living in sin with a man”. Yes, her mom was divorced and was living with a man to whom she was not married. A man who my friend regarded as her Dad. Who had been living with them, supporting them and caring for them kindly and well for over ten years. So what exactly was the problem here, I wondered? I left the group after a few meetings, and wandered churchless for another year or two, but I still retained the foundation of my faith. During grade 11, I met a new friend, who was an active member of a Baptist youth group. I flirted with membership in that group but was similarly dismayed by dogmatism, intolerance and what I saw then as an all too eager desire to “witness” and bring new people into the fold.
It was also at this stage that I was studying biology in school and developed a keen interest in evolution and genetics. Even back in the late 80s, the weight of evidence in favour of evolution was overwhelming, and I felt it just could not be denied by anyone who applied even a single brain cell to the issue. Plus, I was very interested in astronomy and cosmology (thank you, Carl Sagan and COSMOS!) and I simply couldn’t see the hand of the God I had been brought up to believe in, in either evolution or the big bang or the scope of the cosmos. Still, I thought there could be room for a god in this picture…a greater but more remote God than the old guy with the white beard I had always envisaged and prayed to. Perhaps there was a creator: a great being or consciousness who had set it all in motion, and had conceived of evolution, the laws of physics and everything! And then had basically turned it on and sat back to watch (or not).
I held on to this rather agnostic view throughout my university years where I studied comparative religion alongside my bachelor’s degrees in English Literature and Education. As I learned about the world’s major (and not-so-major) religions
, I began to form the view that in fact all religions were, at the most basic level, moral codes, shaped by the cultures in which they evolved but essentially meant to guide people towards living good and ethical lives and also to offer people comfort during difficult times. I saw them as many different but converging roads, all leading to the same summit. To me, it didn’t matter how you got to the top of the mountain, because everyone was making their way up there anyway. But that’s not the way the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) see it. Which really kinda bugged me, you know, all that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” business. Because once you get to know more about Buddhism and Taoism and other faiths, it’s kind of hard to buy that line.
, I began to form the view that in fact all religions were, at the most basic level, moral codes, shaped by the cultures in which they evolved but essentially meant to guide people towards living good and ethical lives and also to offer people comfort during difficult times. I saw them as many different but converging roads, all leading to the same summit. To me, it didn’t matter how you got to the top of the mountain, because everyone was making their way up there anyway. But that’s not the way the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) see it. Which really kinda bugged me, you know, all that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” business. Because once you get to know more about Buddhism and Taoism and other faiths, it’s kind of hard to buy that line.
But it wasn’t until I moved out to Calgary and came into close contact with a group of conservative Christians that I actually called myself an atheist. A good friend convinced me to attend a moms’ group at a local church, where the children were looked after in what she assured me was a “non-religious” setting. I found the speakers at the moms’ group to be rather overwhelmingly religious, but when I picked up my daughter, I knew there was a problem. She proudly showed me the craft she had made: a kidney bean glued to a piece of construction paper, with the words “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” written on the top. She had coloured in some grass and clouds. “Mom, did you know God made me?” she asked. Non-religious, eh? Not so much.
So I called my friend on that point, and she admitted that when you put it that way, yes, it was sort of religious, wasn’t it? But by Calgary standards, that was actually pretty mild. So she asked me: if I wasn’t Christian, what would I consider myself to be? I hummed and hawed, told her I had thought at one time I would like to be Wiccan (until the jaded side of me admitted that it was just too New Age for me) but that if I really thought about it, if I were to be anything, I supposed I would like to be Buddhist.
And then I thought about it. And I thought about it some more. And I realized: I didn’t believe in God at all. In any god. When I really, really sat down and thought about it, I just couldn’t see any place in my view of the cosmos for a being anything like any description of god I’ve come across anywhere. So I knew what I believed. And what I didn’t. And I knew, therefore, what I was. An atheist. And the more I thought about it and talked about it, the more I realized that many, many people are atheists. As Richard Dawkins says on his Out Campaign website, “Atheists are just people with a different interpretation of cosmic origins, nothing to be alarmed about.” Or ashamed about, either.
So yeah. There you have it in a nutshell (and a very small nutshell at that, although it makes for a very long post). One day soon perhaps I shall talk about raising children as an atheist (especially one who was raised in a Christian household) and why we still observe all the major Christian holidays (and why I don’t consider myself a hypocrite for doing so).
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
My confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees… I don’t feel threatened.. I don’t feel discriminated against.. That’s what they are, Christmas trees.
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, ‘Merry Christmas’ to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu .. If people want a creche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren’t allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it’s not funny, it’s intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham’s daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her ‘How could God let something like this happen?’ (regarding Hurricane Katrina).. Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.. She said, ‘I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we’ve been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?’
In light of recent events… terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O’Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn’t want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn’t spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock’s son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he’s talking about.. And we said okay..
Now we’re asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don’t know right from wrong, and why it doesn’t bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with ‘WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.’
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world’s going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send ‘jokes’ through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you’re not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit.
If not, then just discard it… no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don’t sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
Ben S
A well-written and well-presented argument for atheism. I’m glad my faith in God is so strong, or I may be swayed! : )
Would you do me a favour? Sign up for an Alpha course (I’m sure they’re offered all over Calgary). Your arguments for there not being a God would be welcomed and the resulting conversation around your table would be spunky to say the least. You could blog the outcome!
Also, many people question where God is, or if there really is a God, especially when horrifying, heart-breaking things happen. I don’t have the answers but I did find that the book ‘The Shack’ shed some light on the subject.
Hey Kath,
Thanks very much for your thoughtful comments – for real! I came today to see if you or anyone else had left some.
Interesting about the awe aspect. Darwin seemed to have so much of it too – I forgot about that. (I was listening to CBC a little while back on the biography of Darwin, and they said that one of the biggest reasons he fell away from his Christian faith was not his studies, but when his daughter died of TB at 10 years old. Even a guy like him wrestled with the same old “why do bad things happen to good people?” issue and lost. Well, on top of conclusions he reached from his research. ho hum.)
I need to check out Richard Dawkins and also Daniel Dennett – thanks for those names. That’s one thing that always gets me – our consciences – that animals don’t seem to have, so I’d be interested to hear what Dennett has to say. As you can imagine, it’s easy for me to find arguments to support Christianity from the group I run with, but it’s important for me to keep seeking and know why I believe. Also, it’s fun in a nerdy sort of way.
Still, I have not found anything like following Christ that just…works(!) like it does. I have so many girlfriends who (in their words) have wasted their twenties living with the guy/guys who they eventually don’t marry, instead of holding out until marriage. (Isn’t that such an old school concept these days? Crazy but it saves so much heartache.) Tithing keeps my husband and I from being too greedy (hopefully). Prayer changes my heart and being Christ-centered keeps me from expecting my husband to fulfill my every hearts desire (though he does an excellent job). I don’t know exactly what I’m getting at here – maybe that through all of my fact-finding I can see enough (but sometimes weak) evidence to make the leap to a myriad of religions or to athiesm, but following Christ works for me in real time and I’m willing to bet this life and all of eternity on the truth of it. *Cue angels, trumpets, etc.*
Anyway! Thank you so much for blogging about this important topic and for giving me lots of food for thought.
Hi LG – wow, I admire you for reading the Qur’an and being open to “shaking” your faith. Not everyone would risk that.
To your point above about “where did I come from?/where am I going to?”… I can only speak for myself, but I would never say “nowhere” in answer to either question. I just wouldn’t say “heaven”, either. I think it’s important for everyone to understand that just because atheists don’t believe in God doesn’t mean we don’t hold a sense of wonder and awe at the universe. In fact, if you read or watch any of Richard Dawkins work on evolution you will see that he has a most profound and inspiring sense of awe at the incredible beauty and intricacy of all of nature (seriously, you should read The Greatest Show on Earth or check out excerpts on YouTube). Even the book’s title pays homage to that awe/wonder. C’mon…if you’re reading the Qur’an surely you could risk a little Dawkins?
My kids, sister, niece and nephew and I saw the same Hubble movie that Heather refers to above in her comment, all each of us emerged from the theatre completely blown away by the incredible beauty and mind-boggling scope of the universe. I was actually moved to tears at parts. In my mind, the universe is wonderful all on its own, regardless of who/what made it (or not). Not believing in God doesn’t take away from that awe (which is called a sense of the numinous) at all.
Plus, none of us (except seriously disturbed or sociopathic individuals) believes there’s no purpose to anything. Remember my quotation that “atheists are just people with a different interpretation of cosmic origins, nothing to be alarmed about.” In fact, there is a professor at Tufts University named Daniel Dennett (Prof. of Cognitive Studies) who has some very interesting research to show that a sense of ethics and right/wrong is INHERENT to us and has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a man-made concept that has been layered on top of this already extant “moral compass” (which to my mind helps explain why EVERYONE knows it’s wrong to kill, hurt, steal, etc. and right/good to help others, be kind, etc. regardless of which — if any — religion they follow).
I have a great sense of purpose in my life. I love my work and I go there every day knowing I am making a positive impact in the lives of 45 kids – not everybody gets to say that. I also love and live for my children. I get such joy from them and from nurturing them as they grow into amazing young women with bright futures. I love my friends and family and spending time with them. I am involved in my community as a volunteer and my family sponsors two little girls in Kenya – helping others who are going through difficult times gives me a great sense of satisfaction and self-worth.
So you see, I’m really not so different from you after all. I guess I am content to live well in this life, and make the greatest positive impact I can on the lives of those around me while I still possess the gift of life.
The comments are so interesting to read! I recently got a copy of the Quran because it’s important to me to shake my faith (Christian), to embrace and struggle with God and the Bible. I sure am finding the God of Islam to be different than that of Christianity, but I can see some similarities too.
“I really believe that if anything matters, it’s gotta be the way you treat other people, not what you believe.”
I totally agree that the way we treat other people matters a ton, but the main way I’m transformed into a more loving, patient, etc person seems to be digging into the Bible, talking to God and contemplating my life. I need to constantly remind myself too that God does the changing in peoples’ lives; all I need to do is love an accept them right where they’re at. (Sometimes that’s easier than at other times. And I certainly haven’t “arrived”, that’s for sure.) I embrace and struggle with God.
Kath, I think it’s really cool that you think about this stuff, you know? Lots of people don’t seem to and life gets so busy that it’s really really hard to stop and think about the “where did I come from?/where am I going to?” stuff. (I guess, even if your conclusion might be “nowhere and nowhere”. Eeeps I’m sorry but that’s depressing. Maybe it’s supposed to be liberating? I don’t know. It takes a lot more faith to be an athiest than a believer, maybe. I don’t think I could drag my butt out of bed if there was no purpose to anything. Yarg. I don’t mean to offend.)
I just want to add that any of the Christian celebrations that are at solstice or equinox times were originally pagan. The Christian chose December 25th as Jesus’ birthday (nobody really knew when it was) because that’s when the pagans celebrated (and Wiccans still do – appealing to me) Christmas can be traced back to Roman and Babylonian religious traditions like Saturnalia and the Yule (12 day celebrations) of Germanic peoples. The Christmas tree was also part of many religions, the Druids worshiped the Oak tree, the Egyptians the Palm tree, the Norse worshiped Odin and hung 9 dead animals on a tree, etc.
At times both Christmas and Easter were banned from certain churches, including the Church of Scotland at one time.
My point is, that I still celebrate, and can justify, these changing of the seasons traditions without the Christian religion. I am thinking about incorporating some Jewish and Wiccan traditions (in a secular way). I love the Menorah and the idea of celebrating that the days are getting longer again and spring is coming.
I’ve been busy & lazy about it though and your post reminds me to think about and incorporate more ritual and tradition into my family life. Thanks for getting those thought percolating again.
JenB – I completely understand why you’re doing what you’re doing. It’s why we still sing Christmas carols and put up lights and a tree, etc. in our house. And I do tell my kids what the religious background of the holidays are. I guess the difference for me vs. many is that I position it as “this is what some people believe” rather than “this is how it is”. Does that make sense?
No Maria, thank YOU! As I said, I’d been sort of looking for the excuse to open this can of worms for a while, and your comment was the perfect reason. I totally agree with you that the traditions and cultural aspect of a religious community are important and have a place in child-rearing. And yes, that is the reason why we still celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Easter. Although my husband would rather not, I insist on doing it because I love it, and I know the kids do too. And to be honest, before I moved here I think 90% of the people I knew were just like us…probably not reading the Bible weekly or going to church or saying prayers, but still going through the motions at the holidays because, well, it’s fun, it brings the family (and extended family) together, and it is a link to our cultural heritage.
Hey Erin…shouldn’t you be marking??? LOLOLOLOL!!! I only say that because I personally should be writing interim report cards. GAH…at least the marking is done and all that’s left is to input the marks into the forms. A job for tomorrow’s prep period, methinks.
ANYWAY: yup, I get the feeling your Dad and my Mom were the two atheists out of that group of sibs…remember the “I shake my fist at God” eulogy at my Mom’s funeral? That was…sorta surreal. But I digress.
You’re right about Buddhism (insofar as I can presume to comment on it). There really isn’t a deity per se, so it can’t exactly be called a religion. However, many practitioners have deified Buddha and the Bodhisattvas, and loads of Tibetans believe the Dalai Lama is a deity (although when I heard him speak he denied it…interestingly, so did Haillie Selassie but that didn’t stop the Rastafarians from thinking he was the second coming of Christ!)
So yeah. There is some kind of intrinsic human longing for a deity, and even if you serve up a system that has no deity, people will find a way to make one. Again, I gotta go with Ali on this one. But perhaps we should open up a debate on predestination vs. free will? Owww…my head hurts…
Heather…this isn’t a popularity contest, just a dialogue! Even back in the day (goodness, it was a long time ago, wasn’t it!) we managed to get along famously despite our differences of faith. I hope that still holds true today. 🙂
Hopefully I didn’t offend you by my description of the youth group. I probably should have more clearly pointed out that this was MY perception/opinion. Given my background, pretty much anything other than Ali’s Jewish “as long as you’re a good person you’re fine” philosophy would have been too dogmatic and intolerant for me. So that is MY issue, not theirs.
I have lots of people who I know are intelligent, thoughtful, kind and all-round amazing, who also happen to have a deep faith in God. That’s great. It’s just not for me, and since I was asked how I happened to wind up being an atheist, I shared that personal journey. I recognize and respect that other people’s journeys are not the same, and that’s cool.
FWIW, I think it’s great you’re sharing such an important part of yourself with your boys. That’s the best gift we can give our kids: a truly important part of ourselves to carry with them forever. You’re a awesome mom, and an awesome friend. And I hope you continue to comment here: we value everyone’s input.
LG, I wouldn’t say I turned away from God (especially since I don’t believe God exists). But turned away from organized religion…yes.
Julie, LOL at your comment “no lightening bolts, locusts, floods or scourges have happened to me yet.” It’s interesting how we all seem to take issue with the punishing aspect of God. Perhaps our culture is moving to a level where that doesn’t resonate with us anymore?
Anyway, re: figuring it out. I live in a community where many of the people I associate with daily are very religious. Even more so now that I’m working at a religious school, except the people in my neighbourhood are mostly evangelical Christians. So from my experience, tolerance and setting the brain-mouth barrier to “high” (hard for me to do!) are the best tactics. But you will find your own way. Good luck!
Ali: yes, the “problem of evil” has been a theological bugbear forever! The thing that bugs me is that the only answer is basically “God is inscrutable, you can’t understand his methods/plan…” or something along those lines. Which I find totally unsatisfactory – way too easy!
Also, I LOVE the message of tolerance and good deeds you learned in your Jewish upbringing! I can totally live with any faith that preaches that sermon (which is why I so immensely admire the Dalai Lama). I really believe that if anything matters, it’s gotta be the way you treat other people, not what you believe.
thank you! I feel so good that I inspired this post, I actually was wondering why my comment never got posted, I thought you deemed it unfavorable for some reason…anyway, I was raised Greek Orthodox and although there are many (many) things I don’t understand, or agree with, I love the traditions that come with it, and the way it has shaped my life and is part of who I am today; I want my kids to have that as part of their life too, which is why I wanted to know more about how you felt today, since you mentioned being raised in a Christian household also, so I totally understand why you still celebrate all the holidays – it’s not only about the religion behind the celebration, it’s the tradition that takes place
My favorite part of your post, and the one true reason I think we all believe in something & want to teach the same to our children is the following, it sums it up perfectly!
“all religions were, at the most basic level, moral codes, shaped by the cultures in which they evolved but essentially meant to guide people towards living good and ethical lives and also to offer people comfort during difficult times”
Jen, I agree. We went because it’s what people did, and it WAS a nice community. And the traditions were so warm and fuzzy and family-centred. As for the coming-out and need to define myself, I don’t see it as a need I intrinsically had, more a response to outside pressures to define myself in the context of the environment I found myself in. And I think Dawkins’ point is this: very few religious people feel afraid or reluctant to define themselves as such: otherwise you wouldn’t see people wearing crucifixes, hijabs, yarmulkes, etc. But for some reason, many atheists do feel reluctant to admit it: even to themselves. So that’s my take on that.
But I would never put myself in the militant camp: I is what I is. That’s all.
Ahh, Sara, many’s the time I’ve wished the same wish, but with red wine instead of G&Ts.
Love the lightning bolt comment, Tracey…too funny!
Wow Kath!
Great post, very well expressed. Atheist here, totally, but I did call myself Agnostic for a long time.
When Madeleine died I had pangs of “is there something after this life”, because I was wishing there was for her and, to be really honest, for me. I wanted her to still be out there somewhere.
I did not go to church as a child, except occasionally with Grandma. I asked to go to Sunday school a few times but I didn’t last long. I went to a born again Christian camp (because a school friend went) and I was saved every summer and lost again in the autumn for those years. I don’t think I have ever truly believed in God. I just can’t.
I grew up with “hippie” parents and their ideas were very new age. Reincarnation, spirits who spoke through mediums, etc. Although, I think my Dad is an atheist. My Mom and Stepfather explored many different “theologies”, all of them new age. I’m very interested in the self exploration aspect but not in any “mumbo jumbo” stuff. Also the reason I decided against Wicca.
I do miss tradition and ceremony though and I keep saying to John that we should create some traditions. Rites of passage like Bar Mitzvah’s, supper gratitude traditions etc.
BTW, Buddhism is not a religion per say is it? Buddha was not a God and there are no deities….but some cultures have incorporated deities into a version of Buddhism, like in Thailand.
Lots of food for though here…wish I could explore it more but…I’m supposed to be writing my own post! Should have done that first. 🙂
Heather! You should never be afraid to share your beliefs. This is what we are UrbanMoms want! People to be able to openly discuss their beliefs etc! Thank you for sharing yourself with us!
Hi,
Probably not going to be the most popular post ….but here it goes…… I’m a Christian and I do most certainly believe in God. I also think that I am the grade 11 Baptist friend who belonged to the ‘ all too eager, dogmatic and intolerant’ youth group. And I feel really horrible about that being the impression Katherine was left with. (Also despite my Engl. BA I’m a dreadful writer and can’t hold a candle to the way Katherine puts down words I’m just trying to say what I feel.)
As I raise my 2 boys, I share my beliefs with them. I get the whole trying to reconcile evolution with God thing but it finds its own way. My boys loved dinosaurs when they were little and love science now and God too. We were at the Science Centre in Toronto watching the Hubble imax film and the narrator was going on about the vastness of the universe and cosmos and enourmous complexity of it all and questioning how all of this could have come to be. My 9 year old who was entirely fascinated by the “science” of it leaned over and whispered, ” Don’t they know who created it all? God did”.
Hope this isn’t seen as an all too eager desire to bring others into the fold but it is a witness to what I believe and what i am.. a christain…(there i said it.)
Thanks for sharing this story. It seems a lot of people I know who have turned away from God have been hurt in deep ways by people in the church. That’s sad. :0( It has happened to me too – guess it’s part of being in a church family and I’m sure I’ve done it to others too.
am am the most “anit-believer” ever, however, i have a f.i.l. studying to become a RCpriest, my oldest’s best friend is JW, my youngest’s BF’s mother is a minister and no lightening bolts, locusts, floods or scourges have happened to me yet. i laugh when i think of the irony.
my challenge is to educate and not offend. i do not believe in the big bearded man and with their grandfather a dedicated believer i’m going to have to figure this one out.
Wow, I have been writing such a similar post in my head for MONTHS now. The truth is I am Agnostic. I am a member of a Methodist church and my son has been baptized there, just as my daughter will be. When people ask why I would bother with a baptism if I don’t believe in god I simply respond that it’s about being part of the community. I think it’s simply amazing that you know what you believe (and what you don’t) and you aren’t afraid to say so.
And that is what makes me a Jew in my heart, Ali. All of it. Yes. (Does that make sense? Probably not… oh, balls.)
Also, interestingly,…
I was raised with a jewish day school upbringing and we were always taught that you do not have to be JEWISH to be “rewarded in the world to come” – if you live your life AS A GOOD PERSOn, even if you are not jewish…you still go to heaven, or whatever your version of not hell is. And jews do not try to convert people to judaism – they actually try to convince people NOT to convert because it’s not the easiest of lifestyles. So, it is interesting how jews see non-jews. Not as some religions where it’s all “oh my god, if you are not ______, you will burn in hell”…Jews are all, “be a good person and you will be rewarded anyway, if in the end it turns out that we ARE, in fact, the chosen people.”
This is so interesting. I hope this will get people on here talking!!
So, here the thing with me. I am Jewish by birth, both of my parents are Jewish. I was raised in an orthodox Jewish home with my mother and my stepfather. sabbath observant, kosher etc. AND in a non-denomination home with my atheist father and my christian-holiday observing stepmom (only recently has she become a practicing jesus-loving christian). this, in itself, is interesting and works to shape my beliefs etc. So, I don’t know how I feel about god.
I first remember questioning God when I learned about how my grandparents survived the holocaust and what they went through to survive. and how they lost their ENTIRE FAMILIES. and I thought…what kind of god could allow something like the holocaust to happen?!?!? And this STILL really is something I have LOTS of issues with.
I first remember thinking that there must be a higher power was when I gave birth to my first baby…and I remember thinking that there must be SOMETHING more than science happening here. That my body could produce this CHILD out of nothing.
But I struggle. We are traditional Jews and we are raising our children this way. We have Friday night dinners and drink wine and eat challah and light candles and celebrate jewish holidays. because I believe in the TRADITIONS of Judaism. I love them. I love the community aspect. I love taking my children to synagogue. I don’t do any actual praying…but I enjoy the experience. And I enjoy giving my children the opportunity to experience them and learn about their heritage. It’s hard to explain, I guess.
For me, I can separate my being Jewish and my believing in GOD.
It’s funny, Kath, because we grew up in the same household and I barely remember religion. I remember church and the choir but more from a social standpoint. And I don’t think I went to church after we moved the first time and I was 10. Did you keep going? I remember when Grandpa died when I was 11 was when I had my first pangs of “there is no god”. I talked to mom about it and, just like when questioning the existence of other fantastical creatures she said, “well, what do you think, dear?” In my heart of hearts I knew then that she didn’t really believe and began to question myself.
I believe we went to church because that’s what people did. Mom went to church and said her prayers and sang in the choir so when she became a mom that is what she did for us. Even our grandmother who went faithfully and volunteered actively in the church told me as a child that she loved the quiet time during the sermon and the friends she made. She never mentioned God.
I don’t know many of my friends’ current or past religious beliefs because it never comes up. I wonder if a lot of this is because of where you live? I have never felt the need to define what I am, although technically I guess I am an atheist, because it is virtually insignificant in my day-to-day. I love the traditions established when we were children at Christmas and Easter. The sense of family and a connection to the past. The spirit of giving and love. And I also feel it is important for my children to understand their personal religious history. But, honestly, we rarely talk about it.
I guess my concern about “Coming Out” as an atheist makes atheism a defined group too, not much different than any other organized religion. I am not comfortable categorizing myself and my beliefs or lack of according to any parameters set out by someone else. Maybe I would feel differently if I was in an environment where religion played a big part in my surroundings but, to be honest, I rarely think about it.
I am curious to know more about why you think you have had to define yourself at all?
Great thought provoking post!
interesting post Kath! and I one I should be more awake to comment on I think. I’m not sure what I believe in. I did love the experience of going to church as a child but I think that was about the community and socializiation. I’d love to think that there is a heaven and that one day I’ll be hanging out with my mom there sipping g&ts and chatting about the last 40 years….but in my true heart I know that’s a fantasy. Very interesting to think about…
Kath, holy mackerel. I could have written this post. Perhaps I shouldn’t be so staggered by our similarities here, but I am with you.
My parents were both raised Anglican (you know, Church of England) so I guess that’s what it made me. They sent my sister and I to Sunday school, but I think that basically just gave them Sunday mornings off – they never, ever came with us.
When I overheard one of the groups leaders at our (white) Baptist Sunday school tell a small kid that “dinosaurs aren’t real” I decided I’d had enough too. I think I was about 14 years old also. (And? We once went to the wedding of our youth leader, and there was no space cleared for dancing… I asked what was up with that – they said, “Oh, Baptists don’t dance.” Yeah. Game over for me.
And there were friends at other churches who were looking for converts too. Not cool.
I couldn’t reconcile “science” and belief in the “white-bearded man in the sky” either. I still can’t. And I know it’s in part because of my super-close grandparental stand-ins that I wanted to grow up to be Jewish, when I was small. Of the Abrahamic faiths, it’s the one (if pressed to choose) that I would opt for, only because I feel the faith seems steeped in more gratitude and thankfulness than in fear and punishment. (and I love the rituals and traditions.) But that’s just me.
There’s so much more… but it’s all similar. Yes. I’m an Atheist too. (There. I said it.) *ducks from lightning bolt*
Wow. Thanks for such a great post. I know this might sound strange but even as your sister this has enlightened me so much. I had no idea this was a lot of what you went through. Perhaps being 4 years younger the influence was much less. My main memory was being excited to go to church because it meant we could wear a dress and have rags put in our hair the night before. The church bit is almost completely lost. It is so interesting to have read the process that you went through and love that you shared it with us.